Joel Bigman discusses The Second Journey and merging ancient traditions

A new adventure inspired by Journey to the West and Talmudic stories

Joel Bigman is an Israeli author and semiconductor industry professional whose literary work merges historical and cultural narratives. His novel, The Second Journey, published by Earnshaw Books, is regarded as the first Chinese-Jewish historical fantasy, creatively reinterpreting the legendary Journey to the West by linking it to Jewish history and traditions. The book introduces characters from the Chinese classic, such as Xuanzang, Monkey, and Pigsy, who embark on a new quest to retrieve the Hebrew Scriptures, encountering symbolic challenges and mythical creatures along the way.

Bigman’s professional background includes extensive travel across Asia, which influenced his appreciation of Chinese literature and philosophy. His deep familiarity with Jewish texts, including the Talmud, shapes the novel’s integration of Jewish legends, rituals, and philosophical themes.

What inspired you to merge Jewish and Chinese cultures in this unique historical fantasy?

I often travel to Asia for my work in the semiconductor industry, and I gradually became aware of Chinese culture and literature. At first, Chinese culture was this foreign thing, something remote that didn’t fit with my world view. It gradually grew on me, and what was once strange and foreign became familiar and natural. Not as a replacement for my own world, but as an alternate way of seeing the world, and an amazing source of ideas.

Inspiration is a difficult thing to nail down. One day, a though popped into my head. “I wonder if I could combine a Chinese story with a Jewish one?” I had heard of the classic Chinese novels, but hadn’t read any. I picked up the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, in English translation, thinking I could combine that with some Biblical battles. Something along those lines. It was a no-go. Once I finished reading the Romance, I started reading the Journey to the West, and flashing lights went off in my head. “This can work!” The result is The Second Journey.

What challenges did you face while integrating two rich and distinct cultural heritages into one story?

The greatest challenge was how to deal with gods. Judaism is monotheistic, unlike the traditional Chinese worldview. How does one deal with two such different worlds? I didn’t want these worlds to conflict, I needed them to coexist. I found a way to do this.

Another challenge was how to explain both cultures to the reader, who may be familiar with one culture, but not the other. The characters themselves are ignorant of each other’s culture, so the reader learns as they learn from each other.

How did your personal experiences as a Jewish individual influence the narrative of The Second Journey?

When you’re part of a small ethnic group, then it’s just the way the world is. You can go through life without ever thinking “Hey, I belong to this small tribal nation.” But when you try to combine two cultures together, you have to think more consciously about who you are, and what that might mean to other people.

There are some central events in Jewish life, which you experience growing up, and become a focus of your life. The Sabbath is one. I recall Sabbath meals from my childhood. So our travelers had to experience that. Another one is Passover. Monkey, Pig and Xuanzang had to experience that. As does Princess Iron Fan.

What parallels do you see between the teachings of the Talmud and the philosophies in Journey to the West?

Filial duty, for starters. There’s a scene near the beginning of the Journey to the West in which Monkey meets a woodcutter, who tells him where to find the secret to immortality. Monkey suggests that the woodcutter join him, and they’ll both become immortal. The woodcutter refuses, because he has a duty to take care of his old mother. I’ve actually used this story in a talk that I gave in our synagogue.

Both teachings have respect for learning, tradition and the written word. The importance of patience, and of silence are in both. And room sometimes for disrespect.

How did you balance humor, spirituality, and adventure throughout the story?

I’ll start with a Talmudic tale. A Rabbi was walking though the marketplace with Elijah the prophet. (Elijah, as is related in the Bible, went up to Heaven in a whirlwind, and was believed to visit earth, as a representative of Heaven.) As they are walking through the marketplace, the Rabbi keeps asking Elijah ‘who of the people that we see here will acheive the afterlife?’ They see two brothers walking together, and Elijah points them out and says “They will!” The Rabbi goes up to them, and asks them: ‘what is your occupation?’ Their answer: ‘We’re jesters. If we see someone who is depressed, we cheer him up’.

Spirituality and humor work together. There’s spirituality in human relations. A medical clown is doing holy work. A mother taking care of her child has a halo around her head, even if she’s not in a medieval painting.

There’s spirituality in nature as well. The heroes of my tale meet angels, gods and Bodhisattvas, yet, if I had to choose the most spiritual moment in the story, it is when one of the characters looks carefully at a spider.

The narrative framework of The Second Journey is similar to that of the Journey to the West. It is a quest, expressed as a series of short adventures. Some of these involve overcoming obstacles, while others are adventures of discovery. Humor and spirituality are found within this framework, in both books.

The concept of merit is central to several characters. How do you think this resonates across different cultural traditions?

Monkey and Pigs’ real Merit is in their self-improvement, or self- cultivation. Each has to overcome their own natures. This is an integral part of these heroes’ journey in the original Journey to the West.

As Ben Zoma, a first century Talmudic sage says: “Who is a hero? He who conquers his desires.” Ben Zoma, who appears briefly in The Second Journey, is referring to overcoming human weaknesses like greed, or lust, or addiction. In his eyes, a reformed alcoholic is as much of a hero as Guan Yu.

Can you elaborate on the research process for both Jewish and Chinese historical contexts in the novel?

I grew up in a Jewish environment, and went to Jewish schools, so I have been familiar with Jewish sources since childhood. Some of the Jewish legends I used are well-known, though I’ve used them in a creative way.

I’ve also been studying the Talmud daily with my wife, as part of the ‘Daf Yomi’ project, in which one studies, or as we say, ‘learns’, a two-sided page every day. The Talmud is a large text, so it takes over seven years to complete. As we were learning, we ran into many legends and stories that I incorporated into the novel.

Another source that I’ve used is the Book of Legends, which is a compilation of Talmudic legends.

The Chinese context was more difficult for me. I don’t read or speak Chinese, so I am dependent on translations. And there is a huge amount of cultural background that I didn’t grow up with.

I used Anthony C. Yu’s translation of the Journey to the West. His introduction gives a lot of the background, and his footnotes were a great help. I think I read every footnote. Slow going, but worth it. I’ve read the Journey twice so far, and I am reading it a third time now.

I got interested in the historical Xuanzang. I read about him, watched a documentary about him, read his own travelogue, and the biography that his student wrote. I hope to visit the Great Wild Goose Pagoda in Xian someday, in his honor. A literary pilgrimage.

Besides that, I’ve read the other Chinese classics. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Water Margin (I mostly heard this as a podcast), Dream of the Red Chamber, and Jin Ping Mei.

I should mention a couple of podcasts that have helped me understand Chinese history and culture. The China History Podcast, and Master of Demon Gorge have helped a lot.  Daniele Bolelli’s series of talks about Daoism have been very helpful as well.

I find myself in an odd situation. I know very little about Chinese culture. Yet many in the West are completely ignorant of these things, so people look to me as some kind of local expert. I’m far from an expert- I don’t even know the language!

How did you decide which Talmudic stories to adapt into the adventures in The Second Journey?

Some of the stories are so well-known that it was obvious that they had to be included. Others were chosen because they had obvious parallels in the Journey to the West. For example, there’s a rainmaking contest in the Journey to the West, and there is a famous rainmaker in Jewish legends. At some point I wanted Monkey and Pig to battle a demon, so I found the legends about Leviathan.

A key character in my novel is the Apostate Rabbi Elisha Ben Avuya. He was a key figure in the Rabbinic tradition, and his apostacy was a huge shock that echoes through the Talmud and through the ages. Talmudic stories about him fit naturally into my narrative.

If you were to write a sequel, what aspects of the journey or cultural interplay would you want to explore further?

I’ve focused on Jewish and Chinese cultures, while ignoring other influences in the region. In particular, Christianity was developing during this period. John the Baptist does make a brief appearance in the Second Journey, but much more could be done with that. Another major religion is Zoroastrianism. The ‘Babylonian’ Talmud was written in Sassanian Persia, a Zoroastrian empire. There is reason to believe that Zoroastrian Persian merchants reached China.

Photos courtesy of Joel Bigman

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